In honor of the Sears Tower's name change to Willis Tower I decided to write about Mr. Logan's big willy. Carly and I decided to not get Logan circumcised when he was first born. It was mostly my concern. I'm sure either way things would have been fine, however, I just didn't like the idea of slicing off what nature originally endowed. I understand circumcision is a cultural, aesthetic, and possibly cleanliness thing, but none of those reasons seemed to justify the surgery...even if it was relatively painless like doctors say (although I'm sure it's not comfortable). Anyway, I hope that my decision is ok with Logan. I hope he doesn't hate me in the future for not doing it. Secretly, I hope he thanks me someday for letting him retain his foreskin, although I don't really know if foreskin lends a man any advantage because well, I'm a sliced frankfurter. Maybe that was too much information. Let's stick to the topic.
The facts of the matter are that circumcision is nearly a 50/50 thing in modern America, so I'm sure Logan will have company in the big willy department. The challenging part of raising an uncircumcised boy is that I don't really know how the whole foreskin thing works. My understanding is that the process of his peter poking out is a natural one and will happen without any help, but I don't know the time line of it, nor do I know too much about maintenance and the like when he gets older. I'm not that worried about any of this, but Logan's big willy is a topic that I still have questions about. What do you think about all this? I'm interested to know.
Daddy is Home...well, sorta.
15 comments:
I think it's no big deal either way. I always said it would be Darin's decision, because I am not a male. He has decided to go the "Like father, like son" route. But we keep having girls, so it doesn't matter!
Anyhoo - that's what the internet is for! Do some research... just be careful of your keywords!
You can find good information on proper care of the intact boy at this webpage:
http://www.icgi.org/birth_care_providers.htm
I'm glad to hear you protected you son from circumcision. If you read the articles at the site above, I think you'll learn why that was a very good choice, and your son should thank you.
The main thing you need to understand is that Logan's pediatrician may be misinformed. Make sure they do not attempt to retract his foreskin. It sometimes does not retract until puberty, and forcing it can cause harm.
NOCIRC is a good resource:
Answers To Your Questions About Your Young Son's Intact Penis
Your son is very lucky.
The most important thing is that you have given your son a choice for himself, rather than forcing an unnecessary one on him.
MRehill you've done a great thing for your son in allowing him to keep his bodily inheritance. The main thing about foreskin development is, don't worry about it any more than you would worry about the development of your daughter's bits. Intact America has good advice on this on their website:
http://intactamerica.org/
To MissHum22 I'd say please if you have a son, reconsider. If the same sex parent is allowed to choose to customise an infant as they were customised, where does that leave all those Indonesian/Bedouin/Afghani/Egytian girls whose mothers have had their clitoral foreskins circumcised or slit?
Take two bows! One for leaving him intact, and one for granting him what they took from you. That takes real generosity of spirit. MissHum22's Darin, please note. "Like father like son?"
I'm sure he will thank you, because it just gives him more options. And he won't go through life wondering what he's missing.
Apparently the foreskin cheerleaders want to spar with me. Bad move, hippies.
J/K - Eric.
1. Who said like father like son meant he is circumsized? I did not specify either way, so maybe you want to think before you react.
2. That said, Vikinggirl, how DARE you equate a foreskin loss to a genital mutilation? Shame on you. And Hugh7, if you're wondering what you're missing, you sorely need to get a life.
ERIC - don't sweat it - these kind of things pit people against each other for ridiculous matters. This is your first lesson in parenting. Be glad you never posted about breastfeeding or vaccinations. WOO-EEE.
Congratulations mrehill! And congratulations to Logan, what a lucky boy! :) I hope your decision will influences others it's important that all boys be given the opportunity to make this personal choice for themselves. We are getting there in this country but moving just too slowly. I know from experience that Logan will thank you.
In any case, I thought I'd provide you with some answers to your questions. First, development. Yes, this is something that will occur naturally over time. It is quite possible that you won't know when he can fully retract his foreskin since the median age is about 11. Read more about it here. In the mean time 'maintenance' is simple just clean what you see. No other special care is required. There is a good write up here. Additional good information can be found in NOCIRC publications.
The biggest danger Logan may face are Pedis who aren't well practiced with intact boys though I think that is changing but the most important thing is not to let anyone try to retract him even a little.
If you have any questions at all about care or anything, this board is a good place to ask. Lots of parents with lots of experience who've seen and heard it all.
PS - Hugh, do tell me what are all these "options" that uncircumsized males receive in life that circumsized males don't? Are they automatically accepted into the Freemason society? Do they get to go to more prestigious colleges? Are they selected to become presidents, kings and athletic superstars?
MissHum22 - By options, Hugh means that an intact boy gets to make his own decision about his most personal possession. Consider that there are two groups of men, intact and circumcised.
Now of all the intact men, there will be some small group who are not happy with their state. It doesn't matter why they aren't that's just the way it is. And that is actually fine. They can get themselves circumcised.
Now on the other side of the coin there are going to be circumcised men who are not happy with their state. It makes no difference why they aren't happy, that's just the way it is. And that is also fine. The problem is there isn't anything they can practically do about it. So the point is leaving a boy intact puts him in the only group that always has an acceptable outcome.
Now to illustrate this point further, I'll share with you a small survey on a large teen forum. The poster who wrote message #110 explains it quite well:
"We've had poll after poll here on GovTeen. Regularly, at least 1/3 of cut guys would have preferred to have the choice. Sometimes, the number breaks 40% or approaches one-half. You can keep telling yourself that no one really minds -- but this is a personal choice that some people wish they had, for a logical reason. Why would you deny them that?"
Here is one of their polls. You will notice that the poster doesn't lie. In this admittedly small sample, about half the 'cut' guys would have preferred the choice. But, they've run similar polls before and always get the same results. My guess is that most of those 'cut' respondents are American since it is very rare outside the US.
I think that's says something very important and we should be listening. These are amongst the first group of kids to grow up with boundless information on this topic that could make an evaluation before their mind was really set. Previously, most people didn't think about it until they were about to become parents, not anymore. They can also talk to their cohorts in other countries and find out that all the myths they heard were not true and I think that is what really shapes opinion. I might add that 'foreskin restoration' is a very popular topic on those boards too.
Now I am not saying that those 50% hate their parents but they would have preferred the choice and what's wrong with that? I'll add that I've seen similar polls about 'would you circumcise your son' and the numbers usually come out much higher on the no. That is what Hugh meant by choice.
Liz is right I would do a simple internet search, or ask your pediatrician for some info. I bet you will figure most out by logic and common sense - the human body is fairly intuitive.
By the way, Hi I am Darin, Liz's husband who made the "Like father, like son" decision (an easy decision since I have 2 daughters)and I support and understand your choice.
Well Hugh7 Your .gif is, well to be strait forward, real ugly. I say that as a Visual Effects Artist and as a human being. The .gif shows a complete lack of basic understanding of human anatomy, so how can I possibly take someone who posted this as a person seriously? Or should listen to about what to do with any body part. Also for all you know one of my daughters might be missing her hand from a birth or an accident, and if it made her more comfortable with herself I would amputate mine.
But to everyone mad at me for making a choice for a non existent son. I am circumsized, 90% of the men I know are, and NONE of them has ever said "I wish I had the choice." Now we don't talk about our dicks a lot, but I think if someone is comfortable with their body they are not going to have issues about this choice.
I am allergic to DPT immunization, I got the shots when I was a tot, and it almost killed me. I could crawl and dragged by my arms myself around till I was almost 2. I had to ware braces on my legs when I was toddler. I was physically fine by the time I was 4 years of age. Today I am 6 feet tall 180lb and still am strong and healthy. However I also have sever Dyslexia and Graphlexia (thank god for spell check) that my Dr.s believe is from the DPT. I still deal with that when editing code at my job. My parents made a decision that led me to all of this - far worse than a bit of missing skin around my dick. Am I mad at them? nope. Do I think they should have made a different decision? nope. Did their decision affect me? Yup. Do I care? Nope. I am me, and I am extremely comfortable with myself.
So let's not worry about how someone chooses to handle something that for most people is fairly private and be more concerned with how people are making people happy with what they have and who they are.
He he he - "willy"! Now that song "little Willy, Willy won't go home" is stuck in my head!
Hubster is circed but we opted not to circ the baby (were kind of on the fence but insurance wouldn't pay, figured just leave well enough alone).
The way I understand the whole process (from our pedi and from friends with uncirced sons) is the head starts to naturally separate from the foreskin on its own gradually, usually in toddlerhood, but can take until teen years for it to be finished.
I guess my son is about half way separated and my pedi has always said he looks normal down there.
You don't need to do any "maintenance" down there until he's fully separated and then all he has to do is gently rinse in the shower. At least that's what we've been told. My son is only a little bit older than yours but the care of the foreskin has really not been a big deal.
As far as other kids, you're probably right about it being 50/50.
I'm in TX and I'm guessing about 30 - 40 % of my friends have uncirced boys (maybe more, I don't always see diaper changes). My sister lives in OR and none of her friends have circumcised boys. I don't think circumcision is "in fashion" anymore.
And I did not know about Sears Tower - interesting.
Darin, I appreciate your comment about the DPT shot. It wasn't a good experience, and I am sure you wish it didn't occur. I don't think blaming someone for it is the right approach.. BUT if you found out that it was totally unnecessary to give a DPT shot to your own children, would you want to give it to them anyways, just because you had it?
Maybe it isn't a perfect example, as a shot isn't a visual thing, like a circumcision is. Afterall, I presume a large reason why you want to make your boy's like you is because you don't know what you'd say to a kid if he saw that his was different from yours.
Though, to be honest, couldn't you just explain to a child that when you were born people thought it was good to cut it off, but that luckily we have realized that its not good to have it removed? I would say that would probably clear things up with your child alright.
I know that growing up I was in a minority, not being circumcised, but all it took for me, was my parents sitting down and telling me that they chose not to have it done to me because it was better if I didn't have to have it done, because it was sensitive and healthy. I never wished they had made the choice for me.
I think most men who aren't circumcised are pretty happy it wasn't done to them, even if they grew up in a minority. That has to attest to the fact that men who have their foreskin are very aware that it is extremely sensitive genital tissue.
The fact that virtually all medical organizations say that the risks of the procedure themselves outweigh the potential benefits of the procedure has GOT to be enough to dismiss any lingering fears about hygiene or whatever other ideas people might have about the benefits of circumcision.
I don't think people who are circumcised need to go into mourning, but deciding not to continue the procedure onto their children is honorable and wise.
Who knew Eric would get this much advise on cutting extra skin off his son's penis...
Logan now has a choice to cut it off later in life, but do you really think he would end up jealous of those who have foreskin if you did cut it off? Would you look forward to having it done when you are old enough to comprehend if you want it or not? Would you agree most white people get it cut off?
I think there are a few freak shows out there who weren't loved enough as a kid who wish they still had the extra skin and blame their parents for what they did - probably blame them for a lot of things - I think they are all crazy.
Did you see the episode of Nip Tuck where the son is ashamed of his foreskin? The girl he is dating sees it and freaks out. His plastic surgeon father refuses to cut it and the kid tries to cut it himself and is rushed to the emergency room.
Granted, this is a T.V. exaggeration but I think the moral of this story is reasonable. Most white folks I know (being gay I have seen a wide range of them in all ethnic groups) are without foreskin. Certain cultures tend to keep it more than others.
All the tree huggers might think it is best to keep the skin, sighting better sensation in sex as an adult, but what if Logan is the weird one in school with the extra hoodie over his wee wee...and girls are scared to go down on him, this may hurt his mojo.
Now that it's all said and done, if he decides he wants it off, you should pay for it to be done. I'm sure you will have an open dialogue with him so he will feel comfortable talking to you about this stuff.
KSLATS, I am quite surprised with some of the points in your post. On the one hand you seem to consider the fact that Logan might want a circumcision later to be reasonable but, on the other hand, consider those who want to go the other way freak shows? That doesn't make any rational sense.
I was a member of the forum I posted for quite sometime and it's true that in most surveys about half the 'cut' guys would have preferred the choice. That doesn't mean they hate their parents that doesn't mean they are all trying to reverse it, though some are. It's a common enough topic that they've stickied an advice thread on it. More 'main stream' publications are also talking about the subject like the New York Observer article last month. Not a positive spin on the topic but they're acknowledging the phenomenon. I am not sure I see anything wrong with it any more than a woman getting a boob job. The only difference is in their case they are trying to get back something that they felt no one had a right to take from them.
As far as prevalence and women's reactions you're pretty far off too. In my area and age group, among my friends, circumcised boys were in the slight majority, perhaps 2/3rds. From what I understand, from those whose parents work in delivery rooms, it is now far less. I guess that's those weird west coast liberals for you. I also know because of where I am living now that the decrease around the country has been uneven (silly east coast conservatives). That is a shame but it is decreasing. Most of my friends who are circumcised realize that from a practical perspective it's a lemon and don't plan on circumcising their kids. So even now, I greatly doubt he will be the only one in school who is intact.
Now perhaps it's a generational thing, but none of the women either I or my friends have been with cared. There have been surveys on that forum asking this question too and surprise, most don't care. As rates decrease, and people learn more about the subject, the number of shallow women who might reject a guy just because he's intact will be few and far between and they are certainly not worth his time.
Eric, I wish you and your son the best. If you are looking for a place to ask questions, check out the parenting forum.
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